Discover the Journey of Being Complete Without Kids

Discover the Journey of Being Complete Without Kids

• Technology's beautiful.
• I want to welcome you to Dream Chasers Radio with me.
• Your host,
• Yaya Diamond.

What's up, peoples?

Peoples?

How you doing?

• It is a great day,.
• And I'm so very excited to be here.
• Let me tell you something.
• So you guys know I love authors,.

Right?

• Authors complete without kids.
• Yes!
• Finally,.
• Something that I can relate to,.
• That I can like…
• Grab a hold of Complete Without Kids.
• I'm telling you,.
• Telling you,.
• Telling you.
• At 50 years old,.
• I said to myself,.
• I want my kids to be grown and out.
• Well,.
• I got grown.
• Out is a little optional,.
• But grown is always good.
• So, I want to thank you guys so much for tuning in.
• We have our author today.
• Complete Without Kids author,
• Ellen Walker.
• Welcome to the show.
• Thank you so much for joining us.
• Good morning.
• Hey.
• Good morning.
• Thanks for inviting me.
• No problem.
• No problem.
• So I wanted to say thank you so much for joining us.
• But also for your brief history.
• I would love to know,
• Like,
• Your background.
• Like,

How did this happen?

How did you become an author?

By mistake?

Was it something you always loved to do?

• I mean,

What was it?

• It was definitely an accident.
• So I grew up in the deep south,
• Born in 1960.
• Everybody there
• Got married,
• Had kids,

Right?

• That's just what you did.
• And so, for some reason.
• I was a little rebellious.
• I got married.
• But I got divorced.
• And then I got a PhD, and I got really busy with work.
• I got a dog.
• And then all of a sudden.
• I got together with this man who had grown children.
• And he started talking about how much he loved being a dad.
• And I thought,
• Oh my God.
• Maybe I really screwed up.
• I forgot to be a mom.
• And I was like 45 years old.

Right?

• So,
• I started feeling really bad.
• I just felt really like a big loser because everybody around me had children.
• And so,
• I thought,
• Well,
• Maybe I should do a research project
• and find some people who didn't have kids,
• interview them,
• and learn more about.
• People like Oprah Winfrey.
• For example,
• Who,
• You know,
• She's not a mom.
• And.
• And so, that's what I did.
• I just put out a call for.
• You know.
• People who wanted to be interviewed.
• And I spent a year writing a book and.
• And meeting a lot of interesting people and doing some research.
• And.
• And it really.
• It helped me to find peace with where I was in my life.
• Now, the big question.
• I'm sorry to interrupt you.
• The big question is.

Did you ever have children?

• No.
• No children.
• No.
• And I have dogs.
• That's good.
• You can sleep.
• Yeah.
• I don't really want kids.
• I never wanted kids.
• That's not good.
• I hear you.
• Yeah.
• But the only time I want kids is when I'm walking through Target
• and I see those cute little.
• You know.
• Little outfits.
• You know what I mean.
• I do.
• They're so cute.
• Oh my gosh.
• Look how little they are.
• Yeah.
• Then you realize how little they are.
• Yeah.
• No.
• Wow.

- So.

• So your journey is like into writing.

What was that like?

• I mean,.
• I know that you went and you researched and everything,.
• But research is great.

How did you begin this whole thing though?

• How was the,.

Was the first chapter hard?

Was it simple?

• I mean,.

What was that?

• Well,.
• I did what I usually do.
• I hired a writing coach.
• And.
• I met with her every week.
• She lived in California.
• I never met her in person.
• And she told me what to do.
• And so I would do the homework assignments and then get back together with her.
• Now,.
• That was my first book,.
• Which was in 2011.
• And then so much has changed since then,.
• Of course,.
• In the world.
• Back then it was very rare still to hear anything about not having kids.
• Now everybody's talking about it.
• Yeah.
• So I thought I should do a read a second edition.
• And that one I honestly just.
• Discipline myself to,.
• To take time and do it.
• So.
• I got you.
• I got you.
• Yeah.
• So many people are having surrogates have the kids now it's like,.
• .
• Yeah,.
• We're having a baby.
• You're not like,.
• You're like too skinny and flat.
• Oh yeah.
• We hired a surrogate.
• It's like,.
• .
• You paid someone else to use their body to have this baby.
• That's what you did.
• Yeah.
• And people do that now.
• So,.
• And also.
• A lot of people just don't want to.
• Have kids at all though.
• They just want to have their careers.
• They want to get a full.
• They're just thinking about the future.
• Yeah.
• They want to skip the whole pregnancy part.
• Just go straight to the baby.
• Just straight.
• Oh,.
• They don't even want to have a baby.
• They want to have fun.
• Wow.
• Wow.

- Well,.

• So your writing process and all that stuff,.
• You said you really,.
• Really buckled down and wrote,.

Was it this one or the one before?

This one?

• Well,.
• Both of them.
• Yeah.
• But I didn't have a coach for this.
• Wow.

What's that?

• It's good.
• Well,.
• I,.
• You know,.
• I'm a psychologist,.
• So I'm used to writing reports and,.
• I think it's a great goal for everybody to write a book.
• And you don't write a book hoping to make a million dollars.
• You do it for,.
• You know,.
• The challenge of doing something that's hard and you've never done before.
• And it's a good experience.
• It's a wonderful experience.
• Yeah,.
• Definitely.
• And I want to remind people that your book is up in the corner over there.
• The QR code is there and also in the description box below.
• So that way you guys can find it easily.
• It's also on the Diamond Book Club.
• If you are a member of the Amazon.
• Diamond Book Club,.
• Just go ahead and go in there.
• And it's already there ready for you guys to go check that out for yourselves.
• You know,.
• I absolutely love the fact that,.
• You know,.
• What you want and what you don't want.
• You did not want children.
• But this book was probably like as close to it.
• Child as you've ever had.

Tell me what kind of roller coasters did you go on when you were writing this book?

• Well,.
• There's a lot of fear of rejection,.
• Of course,.
• And especially with this topic.
• A lot of people will say things to you like,.
• Oh,.
• You probably wouldn't have been a good mom anyway,.
• Or,.
• Oh,.
• You must be really cold and selfish.
• You know,.
• It could be really helpful.
• Yeah.
• That's terrible.
• And not having kids is sort of like taking the path less traveled,.
• Of course,.

Right?

• Right.
• Mm-hmm.
• Yeah,.
• It is.
• But that's
• Not everybody's meant to have children.
• Not everybody wants to have kids and that's
• It's all right.
• Wow.
• Wow.
• I never,.
• I never,.
• I never thought that there would be such rejection or scruticism or criticism,.
• Criticism.
• Did I say scrutiny,.

Scrutiny and criticism together?

• It's criticism.
• That's right.
• Yeah.
• Yep.
• On,.
• On you not having children.
• I mean,.
• Everybody has a life that they want to live.

Why would they even do that?

• But now that you're past this book and everything and you understand,.

What is it like for you now and are you writing now?

• I keep a journal,.
• That's it.
• Right.
• My mission now is,.
• You think about all the decisions we make in our life,.
• Marriage,.
• Careers.
• Whether or not to be a parent is the only decision that you can't go back on.
• You just,.
• You can't.
• And if you,.
• If you want to have a child and you miss it,.
• You can't come back when you're 60 years old and say,.
• Oh,.
• There we,.
• Yeah.
• And so.
• That's what surrogates are for.
• And there was a 60 year old lady in India that had a baby.
• Wow.
• Wow.
• And of course,.
• IV,.
• But you know,.
• In vitro,.
• But.
• She had it.
• Yes,.
• Right.
• That's crazy,.

Isn't it?

• Well,.
• Raising the child is going to be a hell of a lot harder for her.
• Yeah.
• So help and younger people that have volunteered to help her
• and in case something should happen to her,.
• The child will be taken care of.
• So she just wanted the experience and she found her mate late in life.
• So that was her thing.
• Right.
• Yeah.
• I think a lot about…

How do people make that decision?

What are some of the things they can experience?

• What are some of the things they need to have in place before they have kids,.

Right?

• Yeah.
• Yeah.

What's the biggest thing that you noticed about your life within this book that you didn't realize before you started on this journey?

• Well,.
• I think it was that my life was rich and full.
• And when I looked around at some other folks,.
• Some famous people who also didn't have kids,.
• I could see that their lives were rich and full also.
• And the other thing is,.
• I've never been spread so thin,.
• You know,.
• Trying to do everything.
• And I think especially moms.
• They get fed the idea that they can have it all.
• And the reality is you really can't,.
• You're going to have a nervous breakdown.
• Oh yeah.
• Oh yeah.
• And it's very easy to do.
• It's very,.
• Very easy to have a nervous breakdown with everything that's coming at you as a mom.
• And believe me,.
• I know with the experience of having two children.
• Yeah,.
• It is.

Did you know that parenting a child takes on average eight hours a day?

• I do.
• I know that.
• You do,.
• Because you've lived it,.

Right?

• Yeah.
• And I homeschooled,.
• So that was 16.
• Wow.
• 16 hours a day.
• Yeah,.
• It was 16.
• It was more like 12 to 16 hours a day,.
• You know,.
• And I was a home,.
• I was,.
• You know,.
• I was a homemaker.
• I was at home.
• I was taking care of my children at home.
• I didn't have a job for many years and I homeschooled them.
• And it was an experience that I will never take back.
• But it was a learning experience for me.
• I don't,.
• If,.
• You know,.
• I don't suggest that people send their children off to school if they really want the child to learn at their own pace.
• Some children are faster than others.
• You know,.
• Like you,.
• I mean,.
• You were a child.
• I was a child.
• And when I was a child,.
• I learned a lot faster than a lot of other people.
• And I got bored.
• So then I became the class clown.
• It was just the way it was,.
• You know.
• So,.
• You know,.
• But that's a responsibility that a lot of people don't want to take on.
• You know,.
• Your life was full and that's good.
• That was great.
• You know,.
• My life,.
• I was,.
• .
• My,.
• My son was
• I'm pregnant.
• That was what that was.
• It was like,.
• .
• We're pregnant.
• You know,.
• It was like on purpose,.
• But the person was like,.
• .
• We're pregnant.

You know?

• And so that wasn't something that I had planned,.
• But it,.
• But my son,.
• I would never give him up.

You know what I mean?

• Right.
• And you figured you had a good support system.
• I did.
• You figured it out.
• Yeah,.
• I did.
• I had my mom.
• I had family,.
• Friends.
• My husband was still the same husband I have today.
• And you can't take it back.
• But I don't criticize people for not having children.
• I know what a responsibility that is.

You know what I mean?

• So in your book,.

What can people expect?

• People that don't want children,.
• People that…
• Never had children.
• I don't want anyone to feel guilty here.
• If that's something that you decided or you just couldn't do,.
• It's fine.
• It's fine.

So what is your book going to help with in terms of people that didn't or just didn't want to have children?

• Well,.
• A lot of advice on things that you need to think about,.
• Like your estate plan,.
• For example,.

Right?

• You're not going to have anybody to leave your stuff to.
• And you're not going to have anybody to take care of you when you get old,.

Right?

• No children.
• Yeah.
• How to make sure that,.
• How to make friends,.
• For example,.
• Because it's hard to be the only one without kids when you're,.
• When everybody around you has like school kids,.

Right?

• Oh,.
• Yeah.
• And they're going to birthday parties and soccer games.
• Yeah,.
• So just some general advice on those kinds of things.
• In my family,.
• If you're a good friend,.
• You're an auntie.
• You have responsibilities.
• You have to bring in the kids.
• Right,.
• Yeah.

Is that something that you could do as well?

• I mean,.
• Could you be a part of someone else's life that has children to help them with that responsibility,.

Like a godparent or aunt?

• Absolutely,.
• Right,.
• Right.
• Yeah,.
• And I've done a lot of that too.
• You know,.
• I've met young people and like a server at our favorite restaurant.
• And he was from a family that didn't have a lot of money
• and he was going on a trip to Europe.
• And his last night at work,.
• He came in and I gave him like $500 and just said,.
• Thank you so much.
• I really we appreciated you helping us.
• I gave a young man a scholarship to college.
• But I have,.
• You know,.
• Because I don't have kids,.
• I have the money to do that and to do it.
• Some folks that their own parents can't do it financially.
• Yeah.
• And nowadays it costs so much money to have kids.
• It's ridiculous.
• It does.
• Right.

Why?

• And the US economy is,.
• They're saying,.
• Economists are saying that we're not having children at the rate that we used to have children.
• And they're really concerned about the population of the United States
• because people don't want to have kids,.
• But obviously they don't want kids.
• So arm and a leg and a toe to have them,.
• You know,.
• It's like,.
• Forget that,.

You know?

• Right.
• Yeah.
• Yeah,.
• Well,.
• And I think that as a society,.
• We have got to support families and parents and children because that's our future,.

Right?

• Yeah,.
• Yes,.
• Yes.
• I totally agree with you.
• I totally agree with you.
• We do have to support them.
• Well,.
• I want to thank you so much for being on the show.
• It has just been such a pleasure having you.
• Your website,.

Do you have a website or is it just going to be the Amazon?

• It's completewithoutkids.com.
• Nice.
• So complete,.
• I'm going to put that at the bottom,.
• Completewithoutkids.com,.

Right?

• So let me go ahead and do that.
• Yes,.
• And I have a blog on psychology today also.
• I post articles on anything to do with child-free living.

Rude comments from folks on that.

• I hear you.
• So we're going to go ahead and show that complete without kids.com.
• The website.
• Yeah.
• Awesome.
• Well,.
• Thank you so much again for being on the show.
• I totally appreciate it.
• It's been such a pleasure to see the other side where you,.
• You know,.
• You didn't have children,.
• But you're fine with that.

And you know what?

• It's
• Everybody has their own life they want to live.
• And I don't.
• I don't believe in anyone criticizing someone else for their choices that they've made for their lives.
• Well,.
• Thank you.
• And happy,.
• Happy.
• Mother's Day to all the moms out there.
• Definitely definitely it's a good day to celebrate thank you thank you and thank you guys so much for tuning in
• don't forget to dare to be different
• but most of all don't forget to check out that book and the website right there completewithoutkids.com
• we want to thank you guys so much again
• and don't forget to dare to be different until next time guys bye don't.
• Forget to follow us on youtuber and instagram thank you for watching.
• I can't see you there.